Discussion:
apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and com.lang.fortran are now read only at google groups
(too old to reply)
Lynn McGuire
2023-10-31 22:32:11 UTC
Permalink
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now read
only at google groups to stop the spam floods.

Lynn
George Neuner
2023-11-01 02:31:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:32:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now read
only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
Lynn
You mean the spam floods that Google openly condones and possibly also
facilitates in order to promote its own group services?
The Doctor
2023-11-01 03:15:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Neuner
On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:32:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now read
only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
Lynn
You mean the spam floods that Google openly condones and possibly also
facilitates in order to promote its own group services?
Apt way of putting it!
--
Member - Liberal International This is ***@nk.ca Ici ***@nk.ca
Yahweh, King & country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
Look at Psalms 14 and 53 on Atheism ; unsubscribe from Google Groups to be seen
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John Levine
2023-11-01 10:55:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Neuner
Lynn
You mean the spam floods that Google openly condones and possibly also
facilitates in order to promote its own group services?
I think you vastly overestimate how much anyone at Google cares about Groups.
The whole thing has been on autopilot for years, it can't possibly be making
them enough money to deal with the hassle.

FWIW I get plenty of spam directly from Groups when people yet again load
up a spam list and blast out mail in languages I cannot read.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
George Neuner
2023-11-01 13:06:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Levine
Post by George Neuner
Lynn
You mean the spam floods that Google openly condones and possibly also
facilitates in order to promote its own group services?
I think you vastly overestimate how much anyone at Google cares about Groups.
The whole thing has been on autopilot for years, it can't possibly be making
them enough money to deal with the hassle.
Maybe. But remember that Google trades in eyeballs ... the money, in
some sense, is secondary.


"group" is overloaded.

Google Groups (GG) is a unified interface that provides access to
Usenet, public mailing lists, and to Google's own group services.

But there is a substantial difference: Google offers spam filtering to
its own groups, while denying it to others.
Post by John Levine
FWIW I get plenty of spam directly from Groups when people yet again load
up a spam list and blast out mail in languages I cannot read.
Sure it can happen.

GG's spam filtering has to be opted into by the group administrator.
However, there is no way provided for an outside group to do that, so
even those non-Google Usenet groups and mailing lists that /have/
living administrators have no way to opt into Google's spam filtering.

Also, my experience with GG has been that its spam filtering only
checks posts made via email (the "list" interface). It seems that
posts made directly via the web UI are checked only for abusive
language (and then only in English), and once accepted they can be
removed only by the group adminstrator or via user complaints.


The major point here is that Google provides (some semblence of) spam
filtering - but only for its own groups.

YMMV.
John Levine
2023-11-01 13:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Neuner
The major point here is that Google provides (some semblence of) spam
filtering - but only for its own groups.
This is completely consistent with it being on autopilot. Someone
built the spam filter for their own groups, nobody got around to
making it work with usenet. I can easily imagine them saying there's
so much garbage in usenet from other places, what difference would
it make?

As the old saw reminds us, don't assume malice until you've ruled out
incompetence.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
James Kuyper
2023-11-01 18:52:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Neuner
On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 17:32:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
Lynn
You mean the spam floods that Google openly condones and possibly also
facilitates in order to promote its own group services?
How exactly is that supposed to work? What are the group services that
it's promoting, and how does make it's own news feed unreadable serve to
promote them?
Joe Pfeiffer
2023-11-01 12:40:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September. Blocking posts with Thai
characters eliminates nearly all of the flood for me (but geez, it's
awful that it's necessary).
John Levine
2023-11-01 13:03:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.

People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
--
Regards,
John Levine, ***@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
Joe Pfeiffer
2023-11-01 18:14:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
James Kuyper
2023-11-01 18:53:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
No, GG no longer allow posting new messages, or follow-ups to those
newsgroups. The only new messages you see on GG were posted elsewhere.
Michael S
2023-11-01 20:12:08 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 12:14:54 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
Read-only. No posting. Neither newtopics nor followups. None. Nada.
Joe Pfeiffer
2023-11-01 20:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael S
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 12:14:54 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
Read-only. No posting. Neither newtopics nor followups. None. Nada.
But I posted this followup to comp.arch through eternal-september.
Retro Guy
2023-11-01 20:24:41 UTC
Permalink
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 14:19:19 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Michael S
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 12:14:54 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
Read-only. No posting. Neither newtopics nor followups. None. Nada.
But I posted this followup to comp.arch through eternal-september.
You can post from anywhere you want that carries the group, you just
can't post from google groups
--
Retro Guy
Chris M. Thomasson
2023-11-01 21:26:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Retro Guy
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 14:19:19 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Michael S
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 12:14:54 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
Read-only. No posting. Neither newtopics nor followups. None. Nada.
But I posted this followup to comp.arch through eternal-september.
You can post from anywhere you want that carries the group, you just
can't post from google groups
We can still use google groups for some searching purposes. Remember
when they, Google, tried to outright ban comp.lang.c a while back? Not
even able to read it...
Joe Pfeiffer
2023-11-01 23:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Retro Guy
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 14:19:19 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Michael S
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 12:14:54 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
Read-only. No posting. Neither newtopics nor followups. None. Nada.
But I posted this followup to comp.arch through eternal-september.
You can post from anywhere you want that carries the group, you just
can't post from google groups
Ah, OK. When I originally posted that I was reading from e-s, it was
pointed out to me that I couldn't post. Which seemed very odd, under the
circumstances.
James Kuyper
2023-11-02 03:35:41 UTC
Permalink
...
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Retro Guy
You can post from anywhere you want that carries the group, you just
can't post from google groups
Ah, OK. When I originally posted that I was reading from e-s, it was
pointed out to me that I couldn't post. Which seemed very odd, under the
circumstances.
You misunderstood. No one said you couldn't post to eternal-september.
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Retro Guy
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
Notice: "at Google Groups", he didn't say anything about
eternal-september's policies.
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Retro Guy
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
"they" refers to Google, it doesn't apply to eternal-september.
Stephen Fuld
2023-11-01 21:31:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Michael S
On Wed, 01 Nov 2023 12:14:54 -0600
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by John Levine
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now
read only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
No, I'm reading through Eternal September.
That's "read only" as in they don't let people post new articles.
People continue to read those groups all over the place. You
couldn't stop if if you wanted to.
Ummm.... so they allow followups but not new topics?
Read-only. No posting. Neither newtopics nor followups. None. Nada.
But I posted this followup to comp.arch through eternal-september.
There has been some confusion in this thread recently. Anyone with an
account can read and post messages using Eternal September. The "read
only" is apparently just Google Groups. That is, anyone can read any
article through Google Groups, but no one can post new articles nor
replies to the group using Google Groups.
--
- Stephen Fuld
(e-mail address disguised to prevent spam)
Jack
2023-11-01 22:55:52 UTC
Permalink
There has been some confusion in this thread recently.  Anyone with an
account can read and post messages using Eternal September.  The "read
only" is apparently just Google Groups. That is, anyone can read any
article through Google Groups, but no one can post new articles nor
replies to the group using Google Groups.
There is another server called "paganini.bofh.team". You don't need an
account but spam is not allowed. People abusing the server will have
their IP address blocked.
BGB
2023-11-04 07:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jack
There has been some confusion in this thread recently.  Anyone with an
account can read and post messages using Eternal September.  The "read
only" is apparently just Google Groups. That is, anyone can read any
article through Google Groups, but no one can post new articles nor
replies to the group using Google Groups.
There is another server called "paganini.bofh.team". You don't need an
account but spam is not allowed. People abusing the server will have
their IP address blocked.
IP blocking is a bit questionable though in this era of ISP grade NAT
and similar (say, the IP address they see on their cable modem is
10.x.x.x; with some other IP address visible to the outside world), and
with a dynamic external IP address.

So, if one person is posting spam with a given ISP, then blocking fails
to block the spammer (as their external IP keeps changing), but will
ultimately end up blocking random other people who happen to have their
traffic routed through an IP address which was previously used for
spamming (well, at least until their ISP causes their connections to
jump over to some other IP address that hasn't been blocked yet).

...


It seems like a strategy that mostly (only) really makes sense in a
context where one assumes that each node has a statically-assigned
global IP address.
red floyd
2023-11-02 05:05:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
No, I'm reading through Eternal September. Blocking posts with Thai
characters eliminates nearly all of the flood for me (but geez, it's
awful that it's necessary).
Anybody know can you do that blocking with Thunderbird?
James Kuyper
2023-11-02 05:41:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by red floyd
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
No, I'm reading through Eternal September. Blocking posts with Thai
characters eliminates nearly all of the flood for me (but geez, it's
awful that it's necessary).
Anybody know can you do that blocking with Thunderbird?
Not in that way, but you can block any post whose subject contains a
particular Thai character. By the time I'd selected six such characters,
no Thai subjects were getting through my filter. Someone else identified
the single most frequent Thai letter, and found that a single filter on
that letter was sufficient (much as searching for 'e' would do a good
job of blocking all message using the Latin alphabet).
David Brown
2023-11-02 08:07:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by red floyd
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
No, I'm reading through Eternal September. Blocking posts with Thai
characters eliminates nearly all of the flood for me (but geez, it's
awful that it's necessary).
Anybody know can you do that blocking with Thunderbird?
There is now no need (at least in these groups). All the spam came
through Google's service, and they have blocked posting.
wolfgang kern
2023-11-03 10:25:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by red floyd
Post by Joe Pfeiffer
No, I'm reading through Eternal September. Blocking posts with Thai
characters eliminates nearly all of the flood for me (but geez, it's
awful that it's necessary).
Anybody know can you do that blocking with Thunderbird?
YES, I could make all exotic spam disappear that way [for now].
__
wolfgang (ES+Thunderbird)
Branimir Maksimovic
2023-11-02 11:45:28 UTC
Permalink
["Followup-To:" header set to comp.arch.]
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now read
only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
Lynn
I notice by number of headers. it dropped significantly...
--
7-77-777, Evil Sinner!
https://www.linkedin.com/in/branimir-maksimovic-6762bbaa/
Quadibloc
2023-11-05 20:19:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lynn McGuire
Apparently comp.arch, comp.lang.c++, and comp.lang.fortran are now read
only at google groups to stop the spam floods.
Initially, when I read this, I thought that this was not the case, at least
for comp.arch, as I had just posted there on Google Groups.

However, somewhat later, I did try again - having switched to Eternal
September to _read_ it without the spam flood - and I found that this
was true... and, in addition, now Google Groups is requiring a CAPTCHA
to post to any other group.

John Savard

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