C++ is doomed

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100
in 30 days, the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

C++ is not for beginners.

David LaRue

2024-08-28 11:36:02 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30
days, the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.Â
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++
inventor's" ideal, which is proven not very useful (or more problems
than its benefits, practically).

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.

If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.

Best of luck to you in your career.

wij

2024-08-28 12:24:41 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30
days, the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++
inventor's" ideal, which is proven not very useful (or more problems
than its benefits, practically).

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.

Then, your world is very small.

If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

On the contrary, I use C++ exclusively.

wij

2024-08-28 12:53:29 UTC

Post by wij

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.

Then, your world is very small.

Mostly, because I think I proved P!=NP, so I started to study AI. Many looked to
me are misconception, but some app. (auto pilot, AlphaGO, ChatGPT,..) can not be
ignored. I feel NPU (or GPU) will be part of future computation (including
embeded computing). C/C++ has to support the new hardware. And thus, new
hardware based app. maybe 'system tool' will appear.

Post by wij

If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

On the contrary, I use C++ exclusively.

Ross Finlayson

2024-08-29 03:13:31 UTC

Post by David LaRue

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

Adaptive containers and feedback-directed optimization,
for example, all these sorts of ideas of "optimization"
as "intelligence" are around a lot, and can result instead
of making work for a farm of GPU's to dribble you soft-balls
while it's crypto-mining on your dime, adaptive containers
and feedback-directed optimization, as an example.

Statistical inference itself and made massively-wide
parallel, can be an open book of sorts, exploiting
deep/wide embarrassingly-parallel for "intelligence".

Even models of inference and reasoning like all the
sorts of ye olde "agents" and what can go a long ways
toward making advantange as of tools and calling the
ability to make things actionable "intelligent".

For the "verum and certum" for verification and certification,
has that pretty much AI is a lot, lot easier than it's
sold out to be, besides how easy it is to impress average
onlookers with a mechanical turk or what, your average commodity
system can run a-plenty of making tractable data, for inference.

It shouldn't matter the language, the intelligence should
pretty much right-quick be able to re-write it in any.

Then, C++ is a particularly optimized and terse yet
expressive form for well-defined object-oriented
procedural then functional programming with a close
affinity to the hardware runtime as usually expressed
by its C roots as of system-programming languages in
the control plane, it's plenty intelligent.

"Doomed", ....

Chris M. Thomasson

2024-08-29 01:29:42 UTC

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

[...]

Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

Mad Hamish

2024-08-30 07:24:52 UTC

On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:29:42 -0700, "Chris M. Thomasson"

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

[...]
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

Look, just because lawyers have been dragged over the coals for
tabling motions with non-existant cases referenced by AI is no reason
to suspect that AI code could have any problems

Paavo Helde

2024-08-30 09:56:37 UTC

Post by Mad Hamish
On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:29:42 -0700, "Chris M. Thomasson"

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

[...]
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

Look, just because lawyers have been dragged over the coals for
tabling motions with non-existant cases referenced by AI is no reason
to suspect that AI code could have any problems

There is also no reason to suspect it would not have any problems.

So far the most adequate description of the state of the current AI is
provided by this infographics: https://xkcd.com/1838/

wij

2024-08-30 12:26:13 UTC

Post by Paavo Helde

Post by Mad Hamish
On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:29:42 -0700, "Chris M. Thomasson"

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your
target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

[...]
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

Look, just because lawyers have been dragged over the coals for
tabling motions with non-existant cases referenced by AI is no reason
to suspect that AI code could have any problems

There is also no reason to suspect it would not have any problems.
So far the most adequate description of the state of the current AI is
provided by this infographics: https://xkcd.com/1838/

From your reply, I would assume you have no real knowledge of AI.
Anyone has little knowledge of AI won't expect it can provide exact answer.
If you understand what O(2^N) mean, there is (pretty much) no exact answer
(algorithm, precisely) for such problems.

wij

2024-08-30 12:28:12 UTC

Post by wij

Post by Paavo Helde

Post by Mad Hamish
On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:29:42 -0700, "Chris M. Thomasson"

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your
target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

[...]
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

Look, just because lawyers have been dragged over the coals for
tabling motions with non-existant cases referenced by AI is no reason
to suspect that AI code could have any problems

There is also no reason to suspect it would not have any problems.
So far the most adequate description of the state of the current AI is
provided by this infographics: https://xkcd.com/1838/

I mean practical algorithm for O(2^N) problems.

Chris M. Thomasson

2024-08-30 19:46:33 UTC

Post by Mad Hamish
On Wed, 28 Aug 2024 18:29:42 -0700, "Chris M. Thomasson"

Almost every job of my career required C++. AI is not trusted in my
industry.
If you have little use for C++, find something that suits you and your target
problems. Recommending others to ignore it is nieve at best.
Best of luck to you in your career.

AI is not necessarily "sell the business to an unknown
agent hiding in an arithmetized/algebraized information
model guaranteeing neither accuracy nor provenance".

[...]
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

Look, just because lawyers have been dragged over the coals for
tabling motions with non-existant cases referenced by AI is no reason
to suspect that AI code could have any problems

ROFL! :^D

jseigh

2024-08-30 15:26:31 UTC

Post by Chris M. Thomasson
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

As long as it did not screw up as much as human programmers. I had way
too much job security fixing code written by hot shot programmers. It
was still crappy code as I couldn't do complete redesign or rework in
most cases as the pain level to management caused by the bad code wasn't
high enough. I could have saved them serious money in cloud costs
otherwise.

Joe Seigh

Chris M. Thomasson

2024-08-30 19:48:37 UTC

Post by jseigh

Post by Chris M. Thomasson
Oh yeah. Let the AI write code, then you are going to make sure it did
not make a mistake?

As long as it did not screw up as much as human programmers.

Indeed!

Post by jseigh
I had way
too much job security fixing code written by hot shot programmers. It
was still crappy code as I couldn't do complete redesign or rework in
most cases as the pain level to management caused by the bad code wasn't
high enough. I could have saved them serious money in cloud costs
otherwise.

Chris M. Thomasson

2024-08-29 01:28:52 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

geodandw

2024-08-29 03:35:07 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Isn't most written in C?

Chris M. Thomasson

2024-08-29 04:16:03 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++
inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Isn't most written in C?

Touche.

Paavo Helde

2024-08-29 06:44:21 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++
inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Isn't most written in C?

The original claim was "the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero."

It looks like some people do not know the AI support in Python is all
written in C++. Some people must write it and maintain it, so the masses
can use it via Python.

Bonita Montero

2024-08-29 09:01:16 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++
inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Isn't most written in C?

The Java-VM and the native Code inside the Java Runtime are written in C++.

Chris M. Thomasson

2024-08-29 19:37:34 UTC

Post by Bonita Montero

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of
"C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Isn't most written in C?

The Java-VM and the native Code inside the Java Runtime are written in C++.

C is still nice wrt creating the API's for libraries. The library itself
can be written in C++. However, it uses C for its exposed API.

Paavo Helde

2024-08-29 21:34:52 UTC

Post by Bonita Montero

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Post by wij
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of
"C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its
benefits, practically).

Isn't most written in C?

The Java-VM and the native Code inside the Java Runtime are written in C++.

C is still nice wrt creating the API's for libraries. The library itself
can be written in C++. However, it uses C for its exposed API.

+1, having a C API often saves the day.

But technically, you do not need to write any C code for implementing a
C API. C++ functions declared as extern "C" and using C-compatible
parameter types do just fine.

Sam

2024-08-30 00:33:30 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Which C++ would that be?

Those certain languages predate C++11, I believe, so most of them would
still, unfortunately, be written in pre-c++11, before work started on
solving C++'s biggest drawback: that it was too complicated and hard to
understand. Now, after over a decade of tireless work, everyone can finally
agree that C++ has now been simplified to the point that anyone can master
the language, in a very short period of time.

jseigh

2024-08-30 15:32:22 UTC

Post by Sam

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.

It's funny when the runtime for certain langs are written in C++?

Which C++ would that be?
Those certain languages predate C++11, I believe, so most of them would
still, unfortunately, be written in pre-c++11, before work started on
solving C++'s biggest drawback: that it was too complicated and hard to
understand. Now, after over a decade of tireless work, everyone can
finally agree that C++ has now been simplified to the point that anyone
can master the language, in a very short period of time.

Really? I will have to look into C++ again. I may have been misled by
looking at open source code like folly where I had to suppress my
"OMG, kill it! Kill it with fire!" reaction. There just seemed to
be way more complexity than one would reasonably expect.

Joe Seigh

Chris Ahlstrom

2024-08-29 13:38:42 UTC

1.5/10 on the troll-o-meter.

--
A tall, dark stranger will have more fun than you.

Mad Hamish

2024-08-30 07:22:46 UTC

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Frankly in the modern world bookstores are pretty much irrelevant to
assesing how people are using computers

https://www.statista.com/statistics/793628/worldwide-developer-survey-most-used-languages/
suggests that C++ is still top 10 (and includes HTML/CSS and SQL which
are arguably not really programming languages, if you remove them then
it moves up a couple of spots)

Paavo Helde

2024-08-30 09:51:29 UTC

Post by Mad Hamish

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Frankly in the modern world bookstores are pretty much irrelevant to
assesing how people are using computers

The last dead-tree C++ book I bought for myself was: А. И. Касаткин, А.
Н. Вальвачев "От Turbo C к Borland C++", 1992.

The last dead-tree C++ book I bought for the company book-shelf was:
"Accelerated C++: Practical Programming by Example" by Andrew Koenig,
Mike Hendrickson, Barbara Moo, 2000.

So you might have a point here.

wij

2024-08-30 12:18:01 UTC

Post by Mad Hamish

Post by wij
I just surveyed a local book store for computers: Among the Top100 in 30 days,
the most books is for AI using Python. C++? zero.
Actually, I am not surprised. It seems C++ is the play ground of "C++ inventor's" ideal,
which is proven not very useful (or more problems than its benefits, practically).

Frankly in the modern world bookstores are pretty much irrelevant to
assesing how people are using computers
https://www.statista.com/statistics/793628/worldwide-developer-survey-most-used-languages/
suggests that C++ is still top 10 (and includes HTML/CSS and SQL which
are arguably not really programming languages, if you remove them then
it moves up a couple of spots)

We look things a layer deeper, and make opinions by ourselves, not other people,
not something told or suggested. And not simply "this language is good", "that
language is bad", and the realtion of the two 'conclusion' are not necessarily
XOR.

If you like to SEE "C++ is good", look this one (C++ is in 2nd place).
TIOBBE index is even better. https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

There are several points from the title "Most used programming languages among
developers worldwide as of 2024":
1. Most progammers use more than one language. (the interpretation of 'most
used' need some thought).
2. Paid programming tasks are usually pre-determined to use certain kind of
language(s), nothing to do with "this language is good or bad".
3. ...

What is the book selling order you can find in your place?

Vir Campestris

2024-09-01 20:04:42 UTC